and they see in chuck hagel who never endorsed barack obama, was friendly with him, traveled with him, but didn't endorse him. they see this terrible heretic. and it's really, that is where the republicans are right now. they are looking for heretics instead of converts. and i think it's apparent in the tea party. but i think it's apparent in the ranks of the entire ranks of the party. >> you have effectively turned the corner to the next thing i wanted to ask you about, and this is the hagel confirmation. the republicans, i gather, we're told t is unprecedented, blocking the nomination or the confirmation so far of the man president obama wants to be his defense secretary. >> it's not quite unprecedented for a cabinet secretary it is for a defense secretary. and that is certainly the case. senator reid was involved in the most recent episode of blocking a cabinet secretary with 60 votes, there 20016. -- >> eventualitily he got what he wanted for nevada. in that case. so these things are not, politics is not unprecedented in the nomination process. chuck hagel's problem here is first